There are two tragic things about your all-too-common mission trip scenario.
First, a lot of Catholics are barely formed in faith or basic theology. They often want to do what is right and to please God, but are simply following the practices they’ve been taught. Not wrong, but…
Second, many Evangelicals have this headhunter mentality and know that many poorly formed Catholics are susceptible so they convert the Catholics rather than the occultists and atheists and non-Christians. They also are afraid of the other groups but not Catholics. But when they get back to their home churches, they will recount “saving” 30 marginal Catholics in Senegal or wherever, and all the gang will lavish them with praise. Disgraceful, really, and cowardly.
God bless you and keep you. God loves you. Keep praying, reading, and discerning.
Especially, pray for the grace not to immediately “respond” or feel the need to go into “apologist mode” with others that might try to steer you away from Catholicism (out of their of concern for your soul). You need this time to work on your relationship with the Lord and discern His Church. Protestant friends/family will be confused, potentially abrasive, or simply end their relationship with you should you come into the Catholic Church. I speak from experience—it is painful, but well worth it. Avoiding conflict now, instead focusing on building up your faith. It will help you when those trials inevitably come post-conversion to respond in charity and deal with such things in a truly Christlike manner.
Thank you!! This is definitely something I have especially come to realize recently with some friends who are aware of my journey and have heavily questioned it. I definitely just need time with the Lord right now.
Having grown up in the Catholic charismatic movement, and now having become traditional, I have followed a similar trajectory as you have, but within the Church. In my long life, I have certainly encountered all the attitudes and beliefs you describe. And I am reJOIcing that you seem to be listening well to the inspirations of Grace. Praying that the Good God will bless you richly and forever, and that you will be a blessing to all to whom you are sent! - Mark LaJOIE
Beautiful humility to reflect and write on this. Conversion can be a challenging road.
And, If we're on an ongoing journey of faith... Deepening our understanding of God's call to us over time... We're in good company! Look at Peter in Acts!
In my experience, Protestant converts make some of the best Catholics. ❤️ 🙏 Catholics should know the Scriptures (and many do, even if "I went to twelve years of Catholic school and I don't see anything wrong with [insert sin]..." is an unfortunately common group), Catholics should want to be close to Jesus, Catholics should want to understand their faith and why they are Catholic, Catholics should have missionary zeal... So many beautiful Catholics I know had strong Biblical and Christ-centered formation in their Protestant upbringing and now they bring all those gifts into the Church!
And I will always pray that seekers go towards Jesus, go towards Truth, and not just "the people were welcoming" or "the music was good". (Honestly, Catholics often do poorly on both those points 😅). But the question should always be, Is it True? Like the question asked in Helena by Evelyn Waugh.
(I named a child after a Brideshead Revisited character, also by Waugh, so I can say that author had an impact on me! If you can make time, read the book and then watch the excellent miniseries. It's a short read and a long watch, but *beautiful.* Like, life-changingly beautiful. Other impactful Catholic fiction for me would include The Power and the Glory by Graham Greene and Death Comes for the Archbishop by Willa Cather.)
So true that converts make some of the best Catholics (well, I should say Orthodox since that is what I am familiar with) but either way it's true! We cradles often have much to learn from the zeal, faith, and love for the Bible of those who come from Protestantism!
Hello Madison. I really enjoyed reading your post and getting to know more about you through your story. As a thorough going Protestant myself, I also irk when some of my fellow Protestants are hesitant or even unwilling to affirm Roman Catholics as siblings in Christ.
I do have a remark about your second footnote though. You seem to imply that the disdain for "religion" or "religiousity" is common to Protestantism in general, but that is something I see only in the more charismatic/hyper-charismatic branches. I suppose it makes sense that you said it since that's the space you more or less grew up in.
Some of them will even call other Protestants like me "too Catholic". So I just wanted to say a disdain for "religion" is not at all common to Protestantism as such, just a particular branch which some even reject as not being properly Protestant. I don't go that far, but you see what I mean.
May God bless and keep you in your journey of discernment🙏🏿.
Thank you for your insight Nicholas! I appreciate your perspective. I definitely have found the disdain for “religiosity” through most branches of Protestantism I’ve experienced but I know that is also a very subjective experience so thank you for the clarification! I really appreciate your insight
Thank you very much for your reply. There is a very strong liturgical tradition in the Protestant religion. The more modern denominations don't show that as much, but I'd encourage you to attend a Lutheran, Anglican or Reformed/Presbyterian service to see. We love religion and religiousity, with all its quirks!
Hi Madison, I have come across your substack and started reading along. I—though thoroughly protestant—am encouraged by your journey and the willingness to question your former beliefs as well as try and determine what God has for you in the future. I’ll be curious to continue to hear about how God leads you. I believe that whether you are protestant or Catholic your faith can be genuine and your salvation sure (though the opposite can be true in both cases as well).
I don’t know if you have explored this topic yet, but it is often the position that I wonder about most when it comes to the divide between Catholic and protestant. Personally, I desire that scripture alone be the final authority for all practice and belief—that is, it is higher than tradition. Insofar as the church’s practice or belief is a deviation from the normative practice and doctrine of scripture it should be “reformed.” This might be the question that you have to ask most: is “sola scriptura” enough, or does the Catholic church (or maybe the Universal church) and her sacred traditions determine the authoritative and infallible interpretation of scripture? Both protestants and Catholics must have an answer, but to be a faithful Catholic I think one must submit to the church and her authority in tandem with that of scripture.
Many blessings to you and I pray that God would be with you and guide you into all truth.
Hi Kyle! Thank you for sharing. My writing is just as much for Protestants as it is for Catholics. I’m not at a place yet where I feel I can thoroughly share my thoughts on doctrinal issues between Catholics and Protestants, but I have definitely thought about sola scriptura a bit! While I don’t think I can fully articulate my thoughts yet, I would love to share two points that recently stood out to me: the Bible never says we should believe in it as our sole manner of authority (or from the scripture I’ve seen even insinuate that, feel free to offer some if you have it!); additionally, there IS scripture to support an authority outside of the Bible (2 Thessalonians 2:15 and Philippians 4:9)! But I most certainly agree that anyone who wants to be Catholic ultimately must intellectually assent to the Church’s teachings!
I’m a Protestant but a very ecumenically-minded one. . .I love to remember that the world over, (with rare exceptions of churches that only accept their own), there is “one baptism”. . .whether we be Protestant, Catholic or Orthodox.
With that paradigm being named:
I’d like to remind my fellow Protestants that solo scriptura gets particularly shaky when we think of the first few hundred years of the church.
Also, btw—even having “solas” is in itself a tradition. “We’re the people who liked the thing this one German guy said and formed a new tradition around him, not the people who like the tradition that came from councils of people a thousand + years earlier”.
Again, not trying to rag on Protestants, because I am one. And I don’t see myself ever “converting”.
This is a point that I have not studied in depth, so I too am ill-equipped to speak fully on the matter. Perhaps I will look into it more. And though I have more thoughts, it is probably best for me to ponder and think more prior to responding. May God grant us both wisdom in seeking him!
Absolutely! And if at any point you read anything I wrote and do have a rebuttal or scripture that you feel may argue against it, feel free to share! I am always open to hear arguments against what I am saying or that help me learn something new.
I think of the Apostle Paul on the road to Damascus. God can, and does change hearts.
Being a convert myself, I can relate. I think of all I did as a protestant pastor and pray God can use it anyway in the lives of those people to draw them closer to Him and His Church. I understand your emotion over this. I just want to validate it, and remind you, it doesn't invalidate you that you did these things.
Welcome to the boat, sister! I am a relatively charismatic Christian who is in process of converting. 😊 Like you, I've always had an unusual soft spot for Catholics, little did I know that God was preparing me to be planted with them.
For me, a big draw was the fact that as a more charismatic Christian, the potential for dreams, encounters, miracles and the like are still alive and well in the Catholic faith, unlike in so many Protestant denominations. The other big reason was the art. As an artist, trying to live the artist's vocation was insanely hard, because Protestants, by and large, have no respect for the arts and tend to view them with suspicion. The Catholics welcome art, respect and cherish the role of beauty, and the arts figure prominently in the faith.
The best part is that the more I dig, the more I feel deep in my Spirit that I am Home. The more I dig, the more all my questions are answered.
So all that to say... Keep seeking! The best part is God promises us that if we look, we will find, and if we knock, He will answer. ❤️
I was raised Protestant and grew to be a non-committed “Christian” who believed in little. My conversion to Catholicism is the best thing I’ve ever done. I know I am home. May the Holy Spirit guide you on your journey, Peace be with you.
Beautiful awareness that you have! Keep searching and you can always come home. I’ve never been more alive than I am right now living a fully Catholic life.
I agree. Convert. I did. That said, you should do an internet fast and slow down. Read books, not Substack. Go pray in front of a Tabernacle and listen. Your mind is racing. This is a potential pitfall. Slow. Down. Find a Latin Mass, if you can.
Come home!!! We are waiting for you! It won’t be easy - people will be angry - but you’re already halfway there. You’re on the doorstep. And the Church is so full of beauty and Truth!
Message me if you need to talk about anything, anything at all.
What a beautiful reflection. It takes so much humility to admit where one has been at fault. I too ache for the Protestant/Catholic divide. As a Catholic, I have been so enriched by the witness of Protestants; one of my oldest and best friends and I have been carrying on a long and fruitful dialogue for years about faith and have learned much from each other. Thats why it does hurt when I encounter either hostility/false assertions about my Catholic faith on one side, or poor catechesis/practice by Catholics on the other side-both of which further the divide and become barriers to communion. May God guide you in this journey! Final note-I think an important thing to keep in mind when looking at the Catholic Church is to focus on a) it’s actually teachings, looking at official documentation as much as possible-we got the culture wars in the church too sadly b) the Saints! They are the ones who have truly “taken the cure” and show the truth of what our faith looks like in all its variety and richness. God never promised us a sinless hierarchy/always holy or wise leaders (see Peter and Judas)-so don’t judge the faith based on that.
There are two tragic things about your all-too-common mission trip scenario.
First, a lot of Catholics are barely formed in faith or basic theology. They often want to do what is right and to please God, but are simply following the practices they’ve been taught. Not wrong, but…
Second, many Evangelicals have this headhunter mentality and know that many poorly formed Catholics are susceptible so they convert the Catholics rather than the occultists and atheists and non-Christians. They also are afraid of the other groups but not Catholics. But when they get back to their home churches, they will recount “saving” 30 marginal Catholics in Senegal or wherever, and all the gang will lavish them with praise. Disgraceful, really, and cowardly.
God bless you and keep you. God loves you. Keep praying, reading, and discerning.
Especially, pray for the grace not to immediately “respond” or feel the need to go into “apologist mode” with others that might try to steer you away from Catholicism (out of their of concern for your soul). You need this time to work on your relationship with the Lord and discern His Church. Protestant friends/family will be confused, potentially abrasive, or simply end their relationship with you should you come into the Catholic Church. I speak from experience—it is painful, but well worth it. Avoiding conflict now, instead focusing on building up your faith. It will help you when those trials inevitably come post-conversion to respond in charity and deal with such things in a truly Christlike manner.
Thank you!! This is definitely something I have especially come to realize recently with some friends who are aware of my journey and have heavily questioned it. I definitely just need time with the Lord right now.
Agree! 🙏
Having grown up in the Catholic charismatic movement, and now having become traditional, I have followed a similar trajectory as you have, but within the Church. In my long life, I have certainly encountered all the attitudes and beliefs you describe. And I am reJOIcing that you seem to be listening well to the inspirations of Grace. Praying that the Good God will bless you richly and forever, and that you will be a blessing to all to whom you are sent! - Mark LaJOIE
Beautiful humility to reflect and write on this. Conversion can be a challenging road.
And, If we're on an ongoing journey of faith... Deepening our understanding of God's call to us over time... We're in good company! Look at Peter in Acts!
In my experience, Protestant converts make some of the best Catholics. ❤️ 🙏 Catholics should know the Scriptures (and many do, even if "I went to twelve years of Catholic school and I don't see anything wrong with [insert sin]..." is an unfortunately common group), Catholics should want to be close to Jesus, Catholics should want to understand their faith and why they are Catholic, Catholics should have missionary zeal... So many beautiful Catholics I know had strong Biblical and Christ-centered formation in their Protestant upbringing and now they bring all those gifts into the Church!
And I will always pray that seekers go towards Jesus, go towards Truth, and not just "the people were welcoming" or "the music was good". (Honestly, Catholics often do poorly on both those points 😅). But the question should always be, Is it True? Like the question asked in Helena by Evelyn Waugh.
(I named a child after a Brideshead Revisited character, also by Waugh, so I can say that author had an impact on me! If you can make time, read the book and then watch the excellent miniseries. It's a short read and a long watch, but *beautiful.* Like, life-changingly beautiful. Other impactful Catholic fiction for me would include The Power and the Glory by Graham Greene and Death Comes for the Archbishop by Willa Cather.)
So true that converts make some of the best Catholics (well, I should say Orthodox since that is what I am familiar with) but either way it's true! We cradles often have much to learn from the zeal, faith, and love for the Bible of those who come from Protestantism!
Hello Madison. I really enjoyed reading your post and getting to know more about you through your story. As a thorough going Protestant myself, I also irk when some of my fellow Protestants are hesitant or even unwilling to affirm Roman Catholics as siblings in Christ.
I do have a remark about your second footnote though. You seem to imply that the disdain for "religion" or "religiousity" is common to Protestantism in general, but that is something I see only in the more charismatic/hyper-charismatic branches. I suppose it makes sense that you said it since that's the space you more or less grew up in.
Some of them will even call other Protestants like me "too Catholic". So I just wanted to say a disdain for "religion" is not at all common to Protestantism as such, just a particular branch which some even reject as not being properly Protestant. I don't go that far, but you see what I mean.
May God bless and keep you in your journey of discernment🙏🏿.
Thank you for your insight Nicholas! I appreciate your perspective. I definitely have found the disdain for “religiosity” through most branches of Protestantism I’ve experienced but I know that is also a very subjective experience so thank you for the clarification! I really appreciate your insight
Thank you very much for your reply. There is a very strong liturgical tradition in the Protestant religion. The more modern denominations don't show that as much, but I'd encourage you to attend a Lutheran, Anglican or Reformed/Presbyterian service to see. We love religion and religiousity, with all its quirks!
Hi Madison, I have come across your substack and started reading along. I—though thoroughly protestant—am encouraged by your journey and the willingness to question your former beliefs as well as try and determine what God has for you in the future. I’ll be curious to continue to hear about how God leads you. I believe that whether you are protestant or Catholic your faith can be genuine and your salvation sure (though the opposite can be true in both cases as well).
I don’t know if you have explored this topic yet, but it is often the position that I wonder about most when it comes to the divide between Catholic and protestant. Personally, I desire that scripture alone be the final authority for all practice and belief—that is, it is higher than tradition. Insofar as the church’s practice or belief is a deviation from the normative practice and doctrine of scripture it should be “reformed.” This might be the question that you have to ask most: is “sola scriptura” enough, or does the Catholic church (or maybe the Universal church) and her sacred traditions determine the authoritative and infallible interpretation of scripture? Both protestants and Catholics must have an answer, but to be a faithful Catholic I think one must submit to the church and her authority in tandem with that of scripture.
Many blessings to you and I pray that God would be with you and guide you into all truth.
Hi Kyle! Thank you for sharing. My writing is just as much for Protestants as it is for Catholics. I’m not at a place yet where I feel I can thoroughly share my thoughts on doctrinal issues between Catholics and Protestants, but I have definitely thought about sola scriptura a bit! While I don’t think I can fully articulate my thoughts yet, I would love to share two points that recently stood out to me: the Bible never says we should believe in it as our sole manner of authority (or from the scripture I’ve seen even insinuate that, feel free to offer some if you have it!); additionally, there IS scripture to support an authority outside of the Bible (2 Thessalonians 2:15 and Philippians 4:9)! But I most certainly agree that anyone who wants to be Catholic ultimately must intellectually assent to the Church’s teachings!
I’m a Protestant but a very ecumenically-minded one. . .I love to remember that the world over, (with rare exceptions of churches that only accept their own), there is “one baptism”. . .whether we be Protestant, Catholic or Orthodox.
With that paradigm being named:
I’d like to remind my fellow Protestants that solo scriptura gets particularly shaky when we think of the first few hundred years of the church.
Also, btw—even having “solas” is in itself a tradition. “We’re the people who liked the thing this one German guy said and formed a new tradition around him, not the people who like the tradition that came from councils of people a thousand + years earlier”.
Again, not trying to rag on Protestants, because I am one. And I don’t see myself ever “converting”.
But could we all just be a little more humble? 😊
This is a point that I have not studied in depth, so I too am ill-equipped to speak fully on the matter. Perhaps I will look into it more. And though I have more thoughts, it is probably best for me to ponder and think more prior to responding. May God grant us both wisdom in seeking him!
Absolutely! And if at any point you read anything I wrote and do have a rebuttal or scripture that you feel may argue against it, feel free to share! I am always open to hear arguments against what I am saying or that help me learn something new.
I think of the Apostle Paul on the road to Damascus. God can, and does change hearts.
Being a convert myself, I can relate. I think of all I did as a protestant pastor and pray God can use it anyway in the lives of those people to draw them closer to Him and His Church. I understand your emotion over this. I just want to validate it, and remind you, it doesn't invalidate you that you did these things.
Thank you ♥️
My thoughts exactly. A modern Paul-ine epiphany. Keep seeking Him, Madison! Let the Holy Spirit guide you. He guided me to the Church 7 years ago!
Welcome to the boat, sister! I am a relatively charismatic Christian who is in process of converting. 😊 Like you, I've always had an unusual soft spot for Catholics, little did I know that God was preparing me to be planted with them.
For me, a big draw was the fact that as a more charismatic Christian, the potential for dreams, encounters, miracles and the like are still alive and well in the Catholic faith, unlike in so many Protestant denominations. The other big reason was the art. As an artist, trying to live the artist's vocation was insanely hard, because Protestants, by and large, have no respect for the arts and tend to view them with suspicion. The Catholics welcome art, respect and cherish the role of beauty, and the arts figure prominently in the faith.
The best part is that the more I dig, the more I feel deep in my Spirit that I am Home. The more I dig, the more all my questions are answered.
So all that to say... Keep seeking! The best part is God promises us that if we look, we will find, and if we knock, He will answer. ❤️
I was raised Protestant and grew to be a non-committed “Christian” who believed in little. My conversion to Catholicism is the best thing I’ve ever done. I know I am home. May the Holy Spirit guide you on your journey, Peace be with you.
Your humility and transparency to be curious and take us along on the journey of exploring your faith is just beautiful, Madison.
Aww, wow. Thank you so much! I appreciate your words of encouragement!
Beautiful awareness that you have! Keep searching and you can always come home. I’ve never been more alive than I am right now living a fully Catholic life.
Find an adoration chapel. Sit with Jesus and contemplate His sacrifice. It’s so beautiful ❤️
It’s all right, nobody dislikes Catholics more than Catholics! 😂 (I am a revert/convert)
I agree. Convert. I did. That said, you should do an internet fast and slow down. Read books, not Substack. Go pray in front of a Tabernacle and listen. Your mind is racing. This is a potential pitfall. Slow. Down. Find a Latin Mass, if you can.
As a Catholic…
Come home!!! We are waiting for you! It won’t be easy - people will be angry - but you’re already halfway there. You’re on the doorstep. And the Church is so full of beauty and Truth!
Message me if you need to talk about anything, anything at all.
God bless you xx
What a beautiful reflection. It takes so much humility to admit where one has been at fault. I too ache for the Protestant/Catholic divide. As a Catholic, I have been so enriched by the witness of Protestants; one of my oldest and best friends and I have been carrying on a long and fruitful dialogue for years about faith and have learned much from each other. Thats why it does hurt when I encounter either hostility/false assertions about my Catholic faith on one side, or poor catechesis/practice by Catholics on the other side-both of which further the divide and become barriers to communion. May God guide you in this journey! Final note-I think an important thing to keep in mind when looking at the Catholic Church is to focus on a) it’s actually teachings, looking at official documentation as much as possible-we got the culture wars in the church too sadly b) the Saints! They are the ones who have truly “taken the cure” and show the truth of what our faith looks like in all its variety and richness. God never promised us a sinless hierarchy/always holy or wise leaders (see Peter and Judas)-so don’t judge the faith based on that.